What kind of car do you drive? SUV Maserati. This is my second one and it is very fun to drive, but it is a little rough. I'm 80 now and I think my next one will be a softer ride. Favorite dinner meal? Snack? Ribeye steak; Amish pretzels. What is your favorite track to visit? Why? Delaware. It is about an hour-and-a-half away from me. They always get a good crowd and it is fun to have people at the track. Brian [Brown] trains down there for me. We seem to do well there. It is nice to see the horses in the barns and walk around and talk to people. I love it. Will you be at the fairgrounds for the Jug this year? No, because of the crowds. I had my third COVID shot but I'm still a bit fearing a little because when I got home from Florida in March 2020 I had Pneumonia and I still have a little breathing trouble. I think I'll be at the sale in Lexington and the races.  What is your favorite big event in racing? Why? The Little Brown Jug. I've been in the Hambletonian and the North America Cup, but I still like the Jug. I haven't won it yet but like the Hambo I've come awfully close. How often are horses or racing on your mind? Almost all of the time since I'm retired and almost have nothing else to do except try to walk because I had my second knee replacement. I do all of my own bills and it takes a lot of my time. I make out sheets and my wife and I watch the races.  What is your favorite thing to do outside of harness racing? I love to travel but have been limited since the pneumonia. I'm a million-miler with United and I've been all around the world. When I had my title company, Chicago Title, they used to take us on a couple of trips a year.  What is your favorite sport to watch? Team? Football -- I love the Cleveland Browns and Ohio State Buckeyes. What is one thing about you most fans/bettors don't know? That I've been in the business since 1970 and a lot of those years have been down. Luckily my business was thriving and I was able to pack in the losses and thankfully now it has turned around with the stallions and such. What is one word that describes harness racing for you? Thrilling. It is the thrill for me and my partners. I love partners. Obviously I can make more money if I own horses 100%, but with partners, when we win, we're texting each other like crazy and having so much fun. That is the thrill of the business for me. ► Sign up for our FREE DRF Harness Digest Newsletter How did you get started in harness racing? My wife's dad Bob Cole trained at the Medina fairgrounds. I was helping him for a while. Then I got into training a little from 1970 to 1975 and drove in 17 or so fair races, and even called the races at maybe five different fair tracks. In 1975 my wife said I had to get out of the business because I was never home and I had a new son. I got out of it from 1975 and stayed out of it until 1985 while I concentrated on my business. When I came back I bought several terrible horses and I learned a lot. Then, later on, when Miss Pine Chip came along, we couldn't get her off her knees, so I bred her and that's where Mr Pine Chip [24-12-6-0 / $635,875] came from. The first year [2005] Jim Arledge had him and did really well. Then I sent him out east to Trond Smedshammer for the Grand Circuit. He won like seven in a row and made it to the Hambletonian. I brought like 34 people to the clubhouse and he got sick that day and broke coming up the stretch as the favorite. That one hurt. How many horses do you currently own? Right now about 46. Most are with partners. I only have one or two by myself. What keeps you involved in the sport as an owner? Money is coming in now left and right from Downbytheseaside and Captaintreacherous so I'm buying a lot of horses with great partners like Bill Donovan, John Fodera and Country Club Acres. That's what keeps me going. At 80 now, is Harness Racing your hobby or job?  I guess both. It is absolutely a business. I've been audited three times by the government and they lost each time because I keep such accurate records.  What is the best advice you've ever gotten about harness racing? My father-in-law taught me a lot of stuff and I have to give him a lot of credit for starting me the right way. But one thing that has influenced my life came from a pitcher for the Cleveland Indians in the 1940s and 50s named Satchel Paige. He once said, "don't look back, they might be gaining on you." I've lived by that my whole life, in business and the horse business, because if something goes wrong you have to go forward. What was your best moment in harness racing? Two races stick out: Captaintreacherous winning the North America Cup and Downbytheseaside breaking the world record at Delaware when he paced in 1:50 as a 2-year-old. Which is the best horse you've ever owned? It has to be Captaintreacherous, but with as well as Downbytheseaside is doing as a stallion, I might change my mind next year. Perhaps your best horse right now is Pebble Beach, a 2-year-old colt by Downbytheseaside. How exciting has it been to own him? When I saw that Noel [Daley] bought the horse, I wanted in, and then I got John Fodera and James Koehler from Country Club in as well. That's a thrill for me to get these guys in with me. I loved the pedigree. I didn't see the horse because I wasn't at the sale, but Noel knows his business.  The other horse I have is a homebred named I Did It Myway. He was undefeated until he had a throat problem in his last race [PASS final]. He's a homebred and a Captaintreacherous. I also have a Downbytheseaside colt born in 2020 from the same Bettor's Delight mare named Flyme To The Moon. This year I have a Captaintreacherous filly from that mare, so I'm pretty lucky.  You also owned part of Downbytheseaside and his brother Captaintreacherous. Was that luck or skill on your part? I went to the sales all the time and I always looked at the horses myself. I'm not sure. Some of it is luck and some is skill. I like to look at the confirmation and the pedigree, but not everyone gets lucky enough to end up with horses like them. How I got in the business with all the stallions was with Myron [Bell]. When he purchased Modern Family at the sale [2010] I wanted him so bad. So I asked him if I could get in on that horse and he came back to me soon after and said yes. I took 25% and that is how I started with Tony Alagna. Modern family turned out to be a good horse. That's how I like to do it. If I see someone buy a horse I like at the sale, I'll go up to them and see if I can get in because I don't want to go in by myself.  How much involvement do you have with the stallion careers of Captaintreacherous and Downbytheseaside? We talk if there is going to be a change in stud fee, but I have no involvement on choosing the mares. Other than meeting once in a while when it involves the syndicate as a whole, I don't have much involvement.  How many broodmares do you own? Many years ago Ed Mullinix asked me to pick a horse out by Dragon Again and we'd go partners. So I picked a horse named Western Drag. We raced her and she was ok, but Jim said he didn't want to be in the broodmare business and wanted to get out so he sold his half to Joe McLead and now she is the mother of Gulf Shores, who is undefeated in Ohio. What's interesting is that when James [Koehler] bought him for like $100,000 he asked me if I wanted a piece of the horse and I told him I had enough horses right now. So unfortunately I didn't get in. Anyway, I think I own six broodmares right now. I have an Uncle Peter mare in foal to Propulsion and a few others. I like to have a few mares because I have plenty of breedings to Captaintreacherous and Downbytheseaside. I can get into them when some people won't be able to. Ideally I could find somebody with some good mares who wants to be partners and I can help them get breedings to those horses. As I said, I love partners.  What has the resurgence of Ohio racing meant to you as a native of the state? It's been phenomenal. I think Bob Schmidt,who was the head of the racing commission in Ohio, I don't think he's gotten the credit he should've gotten. I think he turned this whole thing around. I'm not really involved in any committees, but I am so happy with what has happened here and it is not over yet.  If you had the power to change one thing in the sport, what would it be? I'd like to have rules that apply to all of the Judges the same. For example, there is one track where I think we got a bad call and we are not allowed to go against the ruling of the Judges. I think you should have a chance to rebut a call. All of the Judging of races should be uniform. How do you view the future of harness racing? That's a tough question. We don't have enough participation. How do you get the younger people and the media to participate more? I don't know. I'm also concerned about our future with different states taking money from racing because the economy isn't doing so well in some areas.  How would you rate yourself as an owner? Are you laid back or more hands-on? I guess both. I'll discuss problems and issues with my trainers, but I usually go with what they think is best for the horse because they know more than I do and they are hands-on and I'm not. I'll express my opinion once in a while but I mostly leave it up to the trainer because I trust them. If I didn't trust them I wouldn't use them. How do you rate yourself as a yearling selector?  I do a lot of studying of the pedigrees and I look at all of the videos six or seven times. Lately I've had to trust the trainers to look at them after I give them lists. I'll talk to other partners. We trade lists, go over the horses on their pedigrees and their gaits in the videos, then we'll rate them all before giving the list to the trainers to do the final choosing. If the trainer knocks them out on conformation, it is kind of hard to go against them.  Time for the stretch drive.  Best Horse you ever saw: Bret Hanover -- I'm not saying he was the best ever but at the time I was young and excited about seeing him.  Lasix -- Yes or No?: Yes, because horses bleed and it is not fair to keep the medication from them. Favorite TV Show?: Mostly the news or sports. Trotters or Pacers?: Pacers, but I would love to have a nice trotter. Colt pacers have been very good to me.