11/02/2009 5:47PM

Lots to cover


Also, with the return to Aqu, I was wondering if you could post some old pp's of some of these warriors: Engine One, Kings Swan, Moro and More to Tell?

Here are the past performances.

Download Big A Warriors

On November 12, 1990, I learned a major lession in racetrack humility.  The feature race at the Big A was a $50,000 starter handicap at 1 1/8 miles, and I absolutely loved Joker's Farce, a four-year-old trained by Wayne Lukas.  It was a good field that included Farewell Wave, the third-place finisher of the previous season's Discovery Handicap, but the major attraction (at least from a fan standpoint) was the dean of the local handicap division.  King's Swan was making his 106th lifetime start, and was four years removed from his Grade 1 victory in the Vosburgh Stakes.  In the interim, "The King" had won graded races like the Boojum, Westchester, Aqueduct, Assault (twice), Stymie, Bold Ruler, Tom Fool, and Grey Lag.  Now, at the ripe old age of ten, it looked like King's Swan was getting long in the tooth.  He had lost seven in a row, and Joker's Farce was an in-form youngster. 
I bet the new kid on the block, and began to head for the windows in midstretch when Joker's Farce collared and passed King's Swan.  Chuckling to myself as I counted the winnings in my head, I became disoriented as a huge booming cheer arose from the Aqueduct grandstand.  King's Swan was re-rallying.  The old man wouldn't lie down.  I raced back to the apron, but the sinking feeling in my stomach, the feeling of defeat, was extremely familiar.  It was the same feeling I endured when King's Swan beat back one of my favorite runners, Love That Mac, in 1986.  It was the same nausea I encountered when he wouldn't let Raja's Shark, another favorite, go past him that same year.  When King's Swan wanted to beat you, there was nothing one could do.  No amount of rooting or cheering was going to put Joker's Farce in the winner's circle.  So I kept my mouth shut, and watched in awe as the old-timer did what he loved - win - for the final time in his illustrious career.  The oldtimer shut up a cocky kid that afternoon, and he also shut up Joker's Farce.


Here are the lifetime past performances for the highest and lowest Beyer stakes performers of the week:

 Download Tribaldiva


Here's another question for you, Dan: Has anyone won the BC Juvy off a msw win, or off 1 start?

Let's take a look at the past Breeders' Cup Juvenile winners, their number of races leading up to the BC, and their most recent prep start:

1984:  Chief's Crown - 8 prior races, won Norfolk (1 1/16 miles, Santa Anita)
1985:  Tasso -  6 prior races, won Breeders' Futurity (1 1/16 miles, Keeneland)
1986:  Capote - 3 prior races, won Norfolk
1987:  Success Express - 6 prior races, fourth Norfolk
1988:  Is It True - 5 prior races, second Champagne (1 mile, Belmont)
1989:  Rhythm - 4 prior races, second Champagne
1990:  Fly So Free - 5 prior races, won Champagne
1991:  Arazi - 7 prior races, won Grand Criterium (About 1 mile on turf, Longchamp)
1992:  Gilded Time - 3 prior races, won Arlington-Washington Futurity (1 mile, Arlington)
1993:  Brocco - 2 prior races, won 'n1x' allowance (7 furlongs, Santa Anita)
1994:  Timber Country - 6 prior races, won Champagne (1 1/16 miles, Belmont)
1995:  Unbridled's Song - 2 prior starts, fourth Champagne
1996:  Boston Harbor - 6 prior races, won Breeders' Futurity
1997:  Favorite Trick - 6 prior races, won Breeders' Futurity
1998:  Answer Lively - 6 prior races, second Breeders' Futurity
1999:  Anees - 3 prior races, third Norfolk
2000:  Macho Uno - 3 prior races, won Grey Breeders' Cup (1 1/16 miles, Woodbine)
2001:  Johannesburg - 6 prior races, won Middle Park Stakes (6 furlongs on turf , Newmarket)
2002:  Vindication - 3 prior races, won Kentucky Cup Juvenile (1 1/16 miles, Turfway)
2003:  Action This Day- 2 prior races, won maiden special weight (1 1/16 miles, Santa Anita)
2004:  Wilko - 10 prior races, third Royal Lodge (1 mile on turf, Ascot)
2005:  Stevie Wonderboy- 4 prior races, won Del Mar Futurity (7 furlongs, Del Mar)
2006:  Street Sense - 4 prior races, third Breeders' Futurity (1 1/16 miles on polytrack, Keeneland)
2007:  War Pass - 3 prior races, won Champagne (1 mile, Belmont)
2008:  Midshipman - 3 prior races, second Norfolk (1 1/16 miles, Pro-Ride, Santa Anita)


Speaking of nice 2yo fillies, I was at Keeneland Friday and saw a very impressive 2yo filly named Protesting break her maiden for Shug McGaughey.  Check out the replay of the race. I don't know what kind of Beyer she got, but she won easily in her 2 turn debut despite some trouble and drew off to beat a nice field of 2yr olds.

Could you post the winning Beyer for SWEET SOPHIA on 10/25 at Santa Anita? I had been waiting for her to start and cashed on this debut win which I thought was very impressive.

Protesting, a three-quarter sister to Grade 2 winner Parading, earned a 69 Beyer Speed Figure after winning her maiden by five lengths going nine furlongs on Keeneland's polytrack on October 23.

Sweet Sophia, a $150,000 half-sister to Grade 3 winner Fight for Ally by Smarty Jones, received a 72 Beyer Speed Figure for her debut score going down the hill at Santa Anita. 


Where on the DRF website will I be able to find an analysis
of the workouts leading up to the Breeder's Cup? If the DRF is going to offer this, will it be in the October 29Th paper edition? Who will be doing it?
chicago gerry

Mike Welsch will be heading the DRF clockers.  You can find the analysis by clicking the following link:



Could someone post a list of tracks that run a 1 turn mile?? Dirt and Turf please. I like to know for breeders cup handicapping.

The list of one turn miles stands as such:
--Arlington Park (poly only)
--Aqueduct (main/outer dirt track only)
--Belmont Park (dirt course and to an extent, Widener Turf.)
--Churchill Downs (dirt only)
--Colonial Downs (dirt only)
--Gulfstream Park (dirt only)
--Laurel Park (dirt only)
--Woodbine (turf only)


Thanks for the heads-up on the future stars.  Gotta love the Stormy Atlantics, such an underrated sire.  A few pp request for you; I'm interested in Midwest mares Heatherten and Sefa's Beauty, and also Sham and Eillo.  Thanks in advance, very much appreciated!

Here they are minus Sham (he's a bit too old for our database):

Download Eillo

Download Midwesterners


What does 2000/1000 Guineas mean and why do multiple tracks have a race by that name?
Captain Bodgit

The Guinea was a coin. 2000/1000 Guineas was the purse or winner's take of those races when they started, which was a very, very long time ago. The name stuck.


I've been looking all over the internet trying to find 2010 racing dates for Paris and London area tracks. I'm going over in April and have no idea what, if anything, will be going on. I'd like to check out a couple of tracks around Paris or London but can't find what would be running. Do you know where I could find this?

Check out this website for race dates in Britain. 


I'm still trying to find some more information for French racing.  You might want to look at this sight for more information:



Seing a new thing in DFR's pp's now.  A claiming race will look like this in the running lines Clm 30,000(30,000-25,000)B.  What does the "B" stand for?
Captain Bodgit

The 'B' refers to a beaten claimer.  An example of a beaten claimer would be "for three-year-olds, or for four-year-olds and upward that have never won two races."  In this case, a three-year-old with 20 wins (or any amount of wins) would be eligible to face 'n2L' older runners.


Hi, lots of great reading here i see, but someone led me in this direction so i may possibly find out some info on a mare from late 70's early 80s named  End Of The Rainbow who raced @ waterford park. my kids recently purchased me a winners photo of her from jan 1979 thats now on my wall so we were interested in finding out whatever we can about her. what we know is she raced 55 times w/ 7 winners and was bred to 2x. any additional info will be greatly appreciated by my herd and i. thanks for your time!
Richard Omack

Here are the past performances for End of the Rainbow:

Download End of the Rainbow

Here are the past performances of her foals:

Download Rainbow Foals


Ok here is another question..lets say a long shot wins the Classic (and RA never exsisted)..who is your HOY then based off the accomplshments of the year? Would you give it to Gio Ponti?, Einstein?, Careless Jewel (with a win), ....or someone else?

If Gio Ponti didn't disgrace himself in defeat, I'd probably give it to him. Four Grade 1 victories over a wide array of distances and surfaces would sway me.  But it would be very close with Summer Bird, Zenyatta, and Careless Jewel (with a win in the Ladies Classic).  Of course, this is in the case that Rachel didn't exist.


could you post the BC Beyers fromlastyear at SA?
chase clements

Classic:  Raven's Pass - 110
FM Turf:  Forever Together - 105
Juvenile:  Midshipman - 91
Juvenile Fillies:  Stardom Bound - 94
Ladies Classic:  Zenyatta - 103
Mile:  Goldikova - 107
Sprint:  Midnight Lute - 112
Turf:  Conduit - 116
Marathon:  Muhannak - 100
FM Sprint:  Ventura - 105
Dirt Mile:  Albertus Maximus - 102
Juvenile Turf:  Donativum - 93
Juvenile Fillies Turf:  Maram - 87
Turf Sprint:  Desert Code - 101

Congrats to Van Savant for finishing first in last week's HandiGambling exercise.  This week's race will be the Breeders' Cup Classic.


vicstu More than 1 year ago
Slew, angelo, hillbilly, Thanks for the comments on Regal Ransom. Thanks for the comments from the connections as well, angelo. I actually like RR and think he is a nice speed horse who is dangerous at 9f and under when loose on the lead. Am not sure about 10f and ProRide, but am willing to keep an open mind about it. And Slew, they better give QR his head well before that calvary charge starts coming out of that second turn. A horse like QR's BIGGEST weapon is his high cruising speed... Steve T, Zenyatta is a beast. But is she the largest and heaviest horse in the Classic? Pletcher has said that Quality Road was already 17.2 hands and well over 1300 lbs when he inherited him, which, as a 3 year old who is still growing would put him past Zenyatta at this point I would imagine. It was one of the reasons they were saying his hoof problems multiplied and were hard to completely heal (his enormous size). I watched the JCGC and Summer Bird, who is a nice sized colt of about 16 hands, was drawfed in height and girth by Quality Road. Its just that Z is a lady and sometimes its not nice to discuss a lady's weight, especially when there is another horse as big or bigger in the race. LOL. But seriously, do you think that the forgiving nature of ProRide has assisted or worked against Zenyatta at SA, and will the fact that they are "tightening up the track" (to quote Chip Whooley, who I do not know how to take about ProRide) help her (or fellow beast QR) as they stride accross this surface? I am asking because to me ProRide seems like such a different surface than other synthetics. A dry, tight ProRide surface may be what these horses will have to work with. And for those handicapping the sprint, (like Keith L) if I recall, Fatal Bullet set torrid fractions and kept on going last year and only the Baffert Beast ran him down. I think the sprint may play out the same way this year, but on SA surface, FB showed he can run everyone else on the front end off of their feet and keep on going... It should be interesting watching that one and Z on the front end...remember, this is 6 panels. tinky, I am glad you brought up Pack because it will allow me to elaborate on my post. I do not take that as gospel at all, IF the horse in question is good enough. And in races like these, many are. I think you had just started posting here at the time Big Brown's Kentucky Derby was being run. I hit both the exacta and trifecta with BB and Eight Belles in it. If there were ever two horses doing multiple things for the first time (BB in particular), it was those two. I do not rely on Beyers or Brisnet Speed figs to the exclusion of anything else, and have long ago discarded the dosage system. Which means if I think a horse is talented enough next year with a dosage off the chart, I will still bet him (or her)in the Derby. If I had suscribed to Pack's advice, I certainly would not have backed Musket Man at two turns up through the preps and TC races, after all, his sire was a sprinter and no progeny of his had ever won at two turns. I depended on his form and his heart, which was mucho evident if you watched all of his races and his broad stride and ability to stop and start on a dime and quicken in the stretch, regardless of pace... Instead, I raised it (the 2 things for the first time, not 1) as a warning, a red flag. Its my softening of Pack's bromide to 2. Its an assumption that may have some merit to claimers but is often overcome with form and ancetodel evidence (like you provided). I am with you 100 percent about Zenyatta, although I do not know if she will have enough to win, I fully expect her to hit the board and, thus, I cannot toss her from the BC Classic unless something bad arises between now and then. TBTA, Congrats, you have a conservative as Gov. in NJ (this goes to anyone in NJ). I cannot stand either party and their phoney left-right paradign, however, Corzine (the Goldman Sachs Gov.) has helped that state maintain the highest property taxes in the nation... Why is it that so many of these Hedge Fund Hyenas and Derivitive Demons that have worked, gotten rich or managed for GS or JP Morgan Chase are limo liberals who think the little people need higher taxes, and Big Brother to protect them, put a chicken on every plate and tuck them in and tell them lies about how their "gods", the politician, will save them? Absurd promises, absurd trust! Don't worry about former GS CFO and CEO Corzine. The boys from Goldman Sachs take care of their own. He will never have another care...Although in an honest world, many of the execs from GS would be doing a perp walk pronto! The people of NJ are another story, however. I have several neighbors down here in Florida who fled NJ and taxes. Maybe if the new Gov keep his word (who knows?), and lowering taxes will stem that tide...? Back to the horses!
Mike A More than 1 year ago
I've looked at the Sprint for a bit and I noticed something right away. Who exactly has Zensational beaten? In his last 4 races the best horse he faced is Noble Court and Talkin to Mooma Roo. Global Hunter forget, he's way better on turf and has never cracked 100 sprinting. Of all the horses he's faced, I believe Pauls Hope, Talkin to Momma Roo and Possibly Nobles Court have boken 100 Beyers on their own, and only once. Rebellion did, but a year ago in the BC sprint, ( don't bother that was then, this is now) he hasn't cracked it since. NikkisGoldenSteed made 100 once, but that was a 32K CLM'R. The honest truth is Zensational has never raced against this caliber of horse before. Cost Of Freedom (2) races 110 beyer on SYN Fatal Bullet (6) races over 100, with a best of 109 Crown Of Thorns (1) 102, last race 99 Gayego (4) races over 103 best Dancing in Silks (3) over, last a 106 JITD never CCMC 1 syn race 103 (3) others over on dirt Fleeting Spirit No SYN races, but he's a runner for sure. What's Zensational going to do with horses of this obvious class, horses that will run with him to the 1/8 pole and be ready for more. From the one hole he's got to run and gun, Fatal Bullet, a horse that's proven on the SYN he can fight a long way, on his Throat Latch, with Cost Of Freedon and Possibly Fleeting Spirit right behind?? The way I see it if Zensational wins this race, I'll hail him as the best sprinter in the last 10 years. There's alot more to this race than you think, I'd look closer for those who think Z is a single. Mike A
chicago gerry More than 1 year ago
Odds -Read Across and in the order below: M-L DRF Racing Post: Hill Boylesport) Zenyetta 5-2-4-1,7/2,7/2 Rip Van W 7-2,7-2,6/5,5/4 Summer B 9-2,6-1,6-1,7-1 Colonel J 12-1,10-1,25-1,20-1 Quality R 12-1,12-1,12-1,12-1 Richard K 12-1,12-1,20-1,20-1 Einstein 12-1,12-1,25-1,20-1 Gio Ponti 12-1,15-1,12-1,12-1 Mine T B 12-1,15-1,20-1,25-1 Regal Ran 20-1,12-1,40-1,25-1 Twice Ov 20-1,15-1,10-1,10-1 Girol 25-1,15-1,40-1,33-1 A G 30-1,30-1,50-1,50-1 *** I got the Racing Times figures today but they were made prior to post position draw. If they are revised I will note significant changes. The above originally included two more runners: Mastercraftman at 10-1 and 9-1. Bullsbay at 25-1 and 25-1.
Laura More than 1 year ago
Everyone, The detaled analysis of the BC Juvenile Colts is now available. The Juvie Colts Turf should be up later today. Enjoy! http://www.ironmaidensthoroughbreds.com/ Also, don't forget the Breeders' Cup Chat will be held tomorrow evening starting at 9:00 PM EST! Join in whenever you like. There will be a full room. Laura
Keith L. More than 1 year ago
TBTA: I'm sure there were pleanty of local issues that propelled Corzine to defeat, but I would also venture to guess that most Blue Thong Real Housewives of New Jersy who have sweated (glowed?), and starved themselves to a size or two lower in their time cast a vote against the candidate of fat jokes, hmmm? I did notice that Monmouth county went especially heavily for the big guy! LOL!
Johnny Z More than 1 year ago
Jim Tully, You might be right and Goldikova's post draw might hurt her. I for one think Peslier will find a way to cover her up and not make the same mistake he did in the 7F Prix de la Forget. His biggest mistake in that race was he under estimated his competion. That won't happen in the BC Mile. One must remember that F. Head has had her pointed to this race since her win in the Mile last year. Head stated last week that he felt, Goldikova was maybe better than she was last year! That is a scary thought as, I thought her Mile win was performance of the year on a US track in 08. I will make a W/P/S with Court Vision and a W/P on Gladiatorus (if the odds are right, could be fowardly placed) but while most that I visit with think Mastercraftsman is most sure single both days, for me if Goldikova has no problems she is the most likely winnner on the BC cards.
Craig More than 1 year ago
Wow, talk about a stretch. Let us all work on our comprehension skills. I see it over and over and over and over again. Everyone needs to post and then re-post and then explain. How about we all just slow down and work on comprehending the post the first time? Then what happens is the guy has to explain and explain and explain what he/she had clearly written. Finally he/she is told by someone never involved in the discussion ENOUGH ALREADY- WE GET IT! Yet, they are one of a few who did get it ( or think they got it ) because the original post gets mangled in comprehension and has to be explained to some over and over and over again. Really, a vicious circle, lol. Slow down and comprehend, please. I have basically stopped posting ( still reading majority ) because it is frustrating taking pop shots from people who don't even get the gist of your post and then having to repeat it over and over and over again until someone says ENOUGH ALREADY. Which, in itself, is a only a form of not comprehending the situation at hand. If they would have been comprehending they would have known that the original poster is only defending his/her self from an onslaught of posts that misunderstood the original post. Then, of course, the orignal poster is pissed off for something that is not their fault and another argument ensues. Most important tool for learning is COMPRHENSION. Let's give it a try, what say?
Keith L. More than 1 year ago
Slew: Thanks for the advice, but I'd only play $25 trifecta tickets with Dan's money. LOL! I may be rethinking Awesome Gem with the outside draw, but he does have 2/3rds of the early speed just to his inside, and should get to swing over behind those two on the break. Still looking though.
Ed A., Miami More than 1 year ago
HandiGambling: Breeders' Cup Classic $100 Win #2 Colonel John Best trip of the better ones, and ready for his top effort. Has won at the distance, over the surface.
tinky More than 1 year ago
Lenny is correct as well: if Gladiatorus is allowed to control the pace, then he certainly becomes a bigger danger on this type of course.