HBO's 'Luck' breaks from the gate - learn who's who, discuss the pilot

Luck needed this guy on as a technical advisor: http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/2012/02/st-horseplayers-say.html

hi!!!

After one hour I cannot believe how everyone thinks there will be no better portrayal of any part of the horse racing industry, c'mon, really? There is no telling what kind of viewer it will attract, whether it be a new prosepective owner or gambler or a person wanting to be a jockey. Certainly it will attract some people. I can't imagine it not. Personally I got into the game because of the love of horses, at age 19. My first experience of a breakdown fortunately was not one of the horses I groomed, but it was from our barn. People tend to forget that horses injure and maim themselves at farms, in backyards, at horse shows EVERY DAY. I can guarantee you though, that NOBODY in the horse business has a quicker euthanasia protocol than a racetrack. Because we put racing on the big and little screen, and because it's supposed to be a sport and an industry and we "make" the horses run, and we encourage people to enjoy a day at the races, we become the evil that has no regard for their lives. There will always be SOME people that have no regard for animal life and they will never shed tears or be haunted by it. Most people ARE always aware that it can happen at any time and they will do ANYTHING that it takes to prevent it or help end pain and suffering as quickly as possible. It has always been my opinion that just going by numbers, horses suffer catastrophic breakdowns far less than they should, given the way they are made, the speed, the interference, the surfaces we ask them to perform on. I am glad for that! Forget all the inaccuracies of the Pick 6 bet, the payoff, the 12 times they called themselves degenerates, the number of times the f-bomb was dropped (c'mon, really? When you can hear it at nice restaurants and office buildings constantly, you realize more people use it casually than not--this is an outdoor venue where people are self employed--f-bombs happen!). Forget that the workout was much further than he initially said (I believe he just wanted a 1/4 mile blowout and the horse worked 3/4). Forget he was in the middle of the track, too far off the fence for most of workout then works inside horses at the finish. Forget the constant nickering of horses in the gate, paddock and barn. Forget that she said the horse was "pulling her arms off" when in fact he was slack reined and basically hobby horsing. I don't believe there has ever been a horse racing movie or television episode of any type that has EVER been perfectly edited. I'm sure if you're in the law enforcement industry or medical field or a football coach or a dentist, you'll see a zillion things that "would never happen". Just let it go!!! Enjoy that we have a new series that although gritty and more real than many would like to admit, is closer to much of the truth and is out there for a broader possible fan base. I can't wait for more. PS: Yes, I would have liked to have heard the Cajun jock, the trainer, the vet all speak up more clearly I'm sure they'll work on that for us to enjoy more? Bring it on! Lisa J OKC

Edit police......when showing the Pick 6 payouts the first time the 5 and 8 were the $2.6 mil payoffs, during the race it changes to the 2 horse. Poor editing

For those of you who think we're nitpicking w/the details about the Pick6 ticket scenario, what would your reaction be if this was a baseball movie and a batter had four strikes and a team got four outs in an inning....you need credibility.....minor things that should have NOT been overlooked.....afterall, horse racing fans will make up the majority of the viewers

Lets all not forget, that without horse racing these horses would not exist. If Luck turns out to be good for horse racing than im all for it.

Possible upcoming storylines for luck: Gary Steven's agent agrees to mount in overnight stakes at Philly park, but Stevens is so distraught he commits suicide. Shipper horse sneezes in jocks face in paddock, causing jockey to OD. (Guest star Dick Dutrow) John McCririck shows up for Breeders Cup week, and strikes up a "relationship" with track announcer Vic Stauffer. Any Chantal Sutherland nude scene.

We probably could all do without the pain and suffering that goes on at the track, and that “insiders” know all too well. If you have spent anytime “down on the rail” you have probably heard the “pop” while not necessarily realizing that the fluid soon rushes into the joint and starts to stretch the skin like some sort of obscene drum. If the skin is broken the blood will flow. One is more likely to notice the fear and terror in the eye of the majestic Thoroughbred, as the chink in the armor is realized, a problem is channeled, and all bets are cancelled. Sorry. I didn’t like “Titanic”, either.

Such great actors! The movie seems to be more about gambling on horse races rather than the sport of Thoroughbred horseracing! What exactly is the point of showing a horse breaking down and being put down on the race track? No one seemed to care about the horse that brokedown other than the young jockey holding the horse's head. This is not the case in reality. The common thread among the people in horseracing is love of the horses. Is the series going to later show the relationship between the horse and his trainer? The dreams of the owners that lead them to invest in the horse. Right now the first chapter of this series had nothing positive to say about horseracing. It was very negative. My wife has already said she is done with "Luck" ask me to point out to her one positive thing the show said about our sport. I couldn't! We need positive light shown on our sport which has a lot of positive attributes. I would not recommend this series to anyone that loves animals or horseracing.

Could have lived without the breakdown. I worked on the backside for years and we all know the reality of it. But, everybody already associates horse racing with breakdowns. Scumbags and and what have you, people can tolerate. A horse's ankle hanging by the skin of his fetlock we can do without. the loud pop and the pull up should suffice.

Well the show does reflect an “aspect” of the game. And that it has been retained for a second season means that, much like a horse in a 10f race, goin’ down the backstretch, one can get a breather, settle, and decide what is really going to happen. Think: “Northern Exposure” morphing into “The Sopranos”, because it did happen with the same writers. There are worlds of possibilities here: not all dark and sordid. Look ‘em in the eye, and let it roll – it sez here.

People, people...get over yourselves. Nitpicking the pick six cost and payouts is crazy. You're like the five families of NY critiquing the Soprano's. You have talented production and acting. Just sit back and enjoy the ONLY racing action/drama show ever to grace HBO. So far it's very enjoying and I can't wait to see how this plays out.

Remember "Jockeys" where the PTB showed the breakdown coming down hill with Corey Nakatani aboard at the beginning of every episode. That drove all the new possible fans away. I got several calls about the breakdown on Luck. To a person, they said I will not watch again. I was a FAN, breathed and ate horse racing, bought every book on horse racing, watched anything about horse racing. I haven't been to Santa Anita once this season because of the breakdown. Four weeks in a row, a horse or two was euthanized. Can't take it anymore.

Two horses to follow, intrigued by group of degenerates holding $2.6m P6 ticket and like the trainer/jockey characters. I'd say I'm in after initial episode. Have to find a way to follow the series since I don't subscribe to HBO. Subscribing may be only way. What I did not like was horse snapping its leg then being euthenized close up. Will only confirm public perception that thoroughbred horse racing is inhumane.

You're all wrong on the cost of the P6 ticket. The cost is $4,320(3x1x4x5x3x12). Also,the $1000 win ticket is worth $13,200,not $26,400. I thought the "Luck" episode was very true to life,but Milch should know better on the cost of tickets and the payouts.

They needed technical help on the actual race. Horses went from running in front of the tote board to the backstretch, back to the toteboard and then back to the backstretch. Didn't take away from the story. A mere housekeeping problem. Also, as noted above, the ticket was miscalculated. The real figure should have been used to make it more plausible - particularly given the size of the odd ball' bankroll. Finally, the $48,000 payoff was implausible.

Luck just picked up for a 2nd Season. I hope the series is as good as it looks.

This is what racing does not need. Any real horseplayer has heard and seen this story over and over. You can kiss any new players good bye. Santa Anita owners can hang their heads low. Racing is in the low time and is heading lower with this show. Make series showing the good things about racing. In field of dreams they said build it and they will come LUCK IS TEARING THE FIELD DOWN.

This seems to be a show with really good actors and really bad acting. Nick Nolte only mumbled and was hard, if not impossible, to understand. Dustin Hoffman appeared to be on downers. Farina too. Ortiz was the lone bright spot as Escalante. Oh yeah, and anyone who thinks horse racing is fixed knows nothing about horse racing.

OK, but many errors and poor audio. I didn't need the scene of a horse breaking down, but will probably watch episode 2. Felt alittle like "let it ride".

I agree with Gary West. This film will do more to drive people away from the sport than any other one single thing anyone has done in a long, long time. What person in their right mind would watch or listen to so many 4 letter words coming out of EVERYONE's mouth? Certainly not me or my family or any other potential race track fans-to-be. Showing the horse breaking a leg off and then just standing there, waiting to be euthanized, was unnecessary and ridiculous. The makers of this so-called 'race track movie' must've had people who had never been around a racetrack helping edit. They did a very poor job. Long stretches of time while the "vet" visited with some groom in Spanish did nothing to enhance this movie, except make it feel as though we were watching some foreign film. I was very disappointed in Luck and will do all I can to be sure people don't waste their time with it. I've loved this sport for 50 years, as an owner, trainer, racing official and many other jobs and what is depicted in this movie isn't the life I knew. Rather it brings it down to the level of those who drag it through the mud.

While the show was a realistic portrayl of racing, it does the racing industry no justice. All true fans know there are plenty of cheating trainers, jockey's who drink and degenerate fans. However, was it really necessary to show all the bad aspects of racing, to not the avid racing fan? Did nolte have to have a KY derby contender with the main focus being on how they killed the horse's father? While I enjoy everything racing, more needs to be done to support the good aspects of the sport. NO NEED FOR THE BREAKDOWN SCENE. I wish Luck continued success but how racing fans are in support of something that would put our sport in such a horrible light at a time we need more fans then ever is disappointing. All press is good press (however, not sure this press is).

They'll need better technical advisors - the ticket cost $3,240 and when they showed the pay-offs they were for horses 1 -9 yet there was a 10-11-12 in the starting gate. Also, if there were several million dollar pay outs and one paying $48,000 (or so) - that horse should have been 1/9.

Does that horse actually break his leg and get euthanized?? It looked very real to me

They need a better edit job, on the pick 6 payoffs shown, only 9 horses were shown to be in the race, yet on the track and during the race 12 horses were actually in the race. Minor detail but one that should not have been overlooked in a reality based horse racing program. Enjoyed the show though, hopefully no more errors like that one.

.. So lets start with the fact that there are quality actors here.. .. To assume it's offered as a "warm and fuzzy" to promote the sport.. (pull your head out) .. It's hard hitting drama .. and meant "for the large audience" (which wouldn't be horse racing fans) .. Pretending there are more Pat Day's than P Val's would be dishonest.. .. That you haven't seen the characters featured at every race track you've ever been to .. you haven't spent that much time at the track (and thus summarily dismissed from the Degenerates Club) .. (picking out saddle cloth numbers on horses in a race .. not listed on the pay-outs board .. does qualify you .. based on focus .. as a member of the Degenerates Club).. .. There is cheating .. in every competitive sport.. If gambling is involved just raises the probabilities.. .. I liked the metaphysical notice by several of the potential "Derby Horse".. .. I didn't like that there was no reason offered for singling the #5 .. .. All that I saw that was missing .. some oblivious "super-fluff" .. setting up in the Club House box seats.. The sets of the TV-G, HRTV, etc. Touts .. as the act "on camera" and then "off-camera" ..? .... I give it 2 thumbs up .. each of us .. that are "into the sport" .. sees both personal illusion to and reality of .. "The Sport/Game of Horse Racing.."

I can't believe everyone is getting so hung up on the cost of the pick 6, or the change in the payoff amount on the 2, or the f-bombs. If you've ever spent anytime aound a race track, this is what it is. Every track has an Escalante, more than a few degerate gamblers and it's share of mobbed up characters. Aside from the inaccuracies, this was an accurate depiction of the game. No Disney story here. But that's really the way it is folks. Grow up, get over it and enjoy the show.

It sure is sad to see so many negative sides of racing on the screen. I was waiting for good things to happen. I have trained, owned and raced horses and sure saw more positive sides of racing than the show represented. I am shocked certain trainers and jockeys wanted to participated in the show. I hope future episodes will show more positive sides and all the good things racing can offer. The pride, joy and beauty of the horse and not so much the money hungry gamblers. At our farm we sacrifice ourselves and live tough at times for the love of the horse and the sport and try to share that with new enthusiasts. I hope future owners never watch the show or the show changes to something more positive. Gambling already has a negative image to racing and this should not help racing states struggling to pass casino gambling.

The P6 pays out on the television screen shows number 1 thru 9. When running of the last leg, you could see the #12 horse running in front of the #08 horse. What a blunder.

How did the trainer get a cash voucher for that 1,000.00 win ticket. The horse paid 26.40 to win, and he got a 26,400.00 cash voucher for it. i wanna find that machine. IRS probably does, too.

Yeah, i was one of the 30 that hit the luck pick 6 saturday.

If you like "Luck", wait for Super Bowl XLVI which has a commercial with Matthew Broderick as Ferris Bueller. There is actually 5 seconds of racing footage. I think they won!

Oh... one last comment about the content of the show and how many feel that this will drive away new fans. I guarantee you that Milch and Mann will show enough of the good times that can be had at the track to spice this series up and make it attractive to the 25-54 age demographic. Look out racing fans, there are enough "Easter Sunday" or "4th of July" dates where nothing but chalky $12.00 Quinellas and $16.00 Exactas come in all day long for the Mom & Pop and kids and grandkids. They will profiles this in one or two episodes for the casual or new racing fans.

The statement by Raymond rings true to me. I have often heard similar type refrains at the track. Usually, it is when a patron is leaving the premises without having cashed a ticket all day. Hey, when greed is the creed and all the money is gone, people tend to get upset. That is the way of the world. But Raymond is interesting, just like many of the characters on “Luck” are interesting. Doesn’t mean you would want all that much to do with them in your day to day life. But stories, in general, and TV, in particular, must be interesting if they are to succeed. And often good people are boring. So we get types like Ace and Jerry in “Luck”. Personally, I find horses to offer a therapeutic quality and it lies with those closest to them as well. The spirit that a Thoroughbred can exude far outweighs any sort of reward that a Pick 6 might offer. Here’s hoping “Luck” captures a bit of that somewhere down the line.

Sheri and Dave... great observations. I thought that I was the only one that noticed that... then I read your comments and find that you were both "Dialed In." My problem was the same as Jack A.'s problem. The cost of the Pick 6 ticket was $3240.00, not the $864.00 that was mentioned by drf.com. I have played many Pick 6 tickets (but never more than $484.00 on a single ticket) and 3x1x4x5x3x9 is a whopper. Also, the betting strategy behind singling the #5 horse (Escalante's horse that was coming off a long layoff) was simply a "heady" instinct by the best handicapper (Jerry) in the group. He figured that a trainer of Escalante's stature (he was also the trainer of Ace's $2M dollar horse, so he was obviously a trainer of "stature" like McAnally, Frankel, Drysdale, etc...) knew when the horse was ready to run and win (the horse also had a short blow-out {once around the wrong way} on that same morning by the apprentice and they may have witnessed it because they were all at the track early that day for the carryover). Getting back to the real strategy behind the structure of the Pick 6 ticket, the guy in the wheelchair (Marcus) clearly states that if the #5 horse (Mon Gateau) wins the race at 12-1... then 75% of the remaining Pick 6 tickets are eliminated. This was a ballsy strategy when you consider "... slow works and a triple bug apprentice..." however; Jerry was handicapping the trainer's ego and not the horses. If Mon Gateau wins... Escalante would be considered 'extra brilliant' and that was the angle that Jerry needed to factor in to place so much weight on a $3240.00 ticket. In the "shameless plug" department, I cannot help but mention the fact that DRF's "TicketMaker" wasn't used by any of the track triumverate and could have saved them both money and time. If ever there was a bet to use TicketMaker on, it was the constuction of that Pick 6 ticket.

Still trying to get the overnight ratings, which is bottom line, weather show stays on. Forget the incidentals, p6 tic cost, jump in streets et al.

Really can't understand why so many here are setting their hair on fire. You could put the four rounders (degenerates) in the grandstand, or at the rail of any track in North America. Nobody would even notice them. They're part of the package. As for the nasty language, sorry, but that's simply part of the vernacular. "Racetrack characters talk that way". I'm looking forward to upcoming episodes. I don't know how, but the boys are going to find a way to screw up that $2 million dollar score.

I don't think it was my imagination as I DVR'd LUCK and went back to check. On the original posting of the will-pays for the Pick 6, horse #2, which ended up winning, had a will-pay amount of $335,000-plus. After #8 was injured and taken out of contention, it again showed the will-pays, but the amount for the #2 horse had changed from $335,000-plus to the $2.6 million-plus. Of the 9 horses that were listed on the will-pays, only #'s 5, 6, 7 and 8 were $1 million-plus payouts. Did anyone else notice this? As I said, I DVR'd it and it wasn't my imagination!!

Four schmo's at the track win $3 million in the Pick 6 and only one of them is dancing? If I just won $750,000 I'd be dancin' naked in the streets!! 750K should provide enough incentive for the guy in the wheel chair to get up and walk again! I've never seen such a low-key celebration for such a high-key payoff. My wish for the show: Chantal in a scene "reducing" in the sauna. Sure, she could be wearing a bathing suit, but since this is not TV, it's HBO, maybe less is more?

Several more glaring errors. Nolte's horse worked down the lane and gave a 6 furlong work! And the bug boy gets off the horse and doesn't unsaddle it! The valet unsaddles alone and then they show a rider weighing out and handing his saddle to his valet, but the bug boy walks to the scale sans saddle. Also, the breakdown race they round the far turn about 6 times. They do get many things right, but more should be done better. Then again Seabiscuit and Secretariat movies were based on historical figures that saw the history slaughtered for no good reason. Got to love Hollywood!

Several times I have read that the Pick 6 ticket that was purchased by the group of 3 track regulars (and one outsider who was brought in to help defray the cost of the ticket) was an $864.00 ticket. This is wrong and any DRF writer or contributor (drf.com) who reviews this show should do the research (or re-wind the digital recorder a bit) to look more closely at the napkin/paper it was written on by the younger poker player. As a player, I have yet to hear anyone accurately assess the cost of the pick six ticket... so let's get this straight: A $2.00 Pick Six ticket with these selections (3 w/ 1 w/4 w/5 w/3 w/9) is $3240.00. As far as the second episode goes, this is going to be a great series (if you're a horseplayer). If you are not a horse afficionado, you may just have to enjoy M&M (Milch & Mann) do their thing.

Awesome.

Raymond, You are a fool. Good first episode although I think the breakdown could have been a little less graphic. And they don't need to be dropping the F bomb every ten words.

Interesting and watchable, but someone in the editor's room was asleep on the job. If there were any technical consultants, they missed the boat too. Two things jumped right out at me: First, based on the relative heights of Nick Nolte's character and the horse upon which he gave his exercise rider a leg up, the horse must have been a shetland pony. Or the trainer was standing on a 50-gallon drum. And how is it that the #8 horse passed #11, then #12, then #10 in the last race of the pick-six sequence, but the will-pay screen only went up to #9. What, did the producers think we wouldn't notice? Careless mistakes. I hope we don't see any (many?) more of them. Get some real editors - any racetracker would have caught both of them.

With "racing friends" like David Milch, the sport needs no enemies. He gave PETA and other animal rights organizations plenty of ammunition to criticize the sport. Did he really have to show a horses leg being snapped off in a "multi-million dollar pick 6 race" and then show a vet euthanizing the horse by sticking an oversized needle in the horses neck and having to look the animal in the eyes while they were dying? David Milch---you are a disgrace to the sport of racing and you should be ashamed. If you set out to harm the sport of raing and drive fans (especially females) away from the sport, you have certainly succeeded!!! Neither my wife, myself nor any of our friends or their friends will watch another episode. My only hope is that the ratings are so bad that the series is not renewed. You may rest assured I will do everything in my power to encourage people not to watch the program. Wow, racing gets a prime-time opportunity to benefit racing and David Milch offers up the "BUZZ KILL" of a lifetime.

Horse racing would get an audience if it weren't fixed. But it is. So pound some ground, for all I care. Nice horses, crooked people. Funable.