10/08/2008 1:07PM

HandiGambling 105, questions


A few whatever happened to...
Maimonities-I know I misspelled
Broken Vow
I have more but cant remember now-will bring them up later
Thanks to any who can help

*Maimonides has been battling various injuries, and has been out of action since his final published workout in February.  The folks that post here from Team Zayat could probably fill you in more on his present condition, but he is on our Disabled List on the right hand side of the blog (I know, I know, I'm way behind with the DL updates.  I'll get to them).

*Powerhouse, at one time a highly-touted juvenile from the Shug McGaughey stable, may be getting close to his career debut at age three.  A Phipps homebred by A.P. Indy out of Pennant Champion, by Mr. Prospector, Powerhouse is a grandson of Personal Ensign, and worked a half-mile out of the gate on September 21 at Belmont. 

*Broken Vow has been standing at stud for the last few years.  He's at Pin Oak Stud, and is the sire of Unbridled Belle, Cotton Blossom, and some other good runners.

Here is his stallion page from Pin Oak:



Does anyone know if Indyanne is pointed to BC day?

Due to her game win in Saturday's Thoroughbred Club of America Stakes at Keeneland, Indyanne is guaranteed a spot in the gate.  It seems likely that she'll challenge Indian Blessing and company in the Breeders' Cup Filly and Mare Sprint, and it would be unwise to discount her as a strong contender.  Her only career defeat came in the Victory Ride at Saratoga after breaking poorly, and then rushing up to contest a quick pace.  At Keeneland, she was very game to beat back the stretch burst of the talented Wild Gams.


If Casino Drive runs in the Classic he will have had 3 starts - has there ever been a horse race in the Classic off of 3 starts?? Any idea why they didn't race him in Japan following the Peter Pan? I don't see how you can take him as a serious contender against Curlin, Big Brown, Colonel John, Well Armed, Go Between, or the Euros

If he passes on the originally planned prep race over Pro-Ride, he'll only have two starts going into the Classic.  I'll have to do more research to see if that has ever been attempted before.  Add in his ouchy feet, and his prospects look a bit dimmer.  I'm not sure if the plan was to race him in Japan in the Belmont.  All along, I believe, the goal was to get him back there, get him healthy, and return him for the Classic.  It has been reported that his stone bruise took longer than expected to heal.


Opinions, please!
Is this statement true?
Speed is more difficult to sustain on synthetics than on dirt.

It's probably too early in the synthetic era to prove a statement like this.  There needs to be more data, and it will take several more years of synthetic racing to provide a true sample size.  Also, there has to be a more specific breakdown of synthetics.  Does speed hold better on Polytrack than Pro-Ride or Tapeta or Cushion Track? 
After the initial Polytrack meet at Keeneland, many skeptics were ready to burn the place down because you absolutely couldn't win on the lead.  The track has gotten more fair over the subsequen meetings. 
If I had to hazard a guess as to the results of future studies, I'd say that there will be less in the way of crazy speed biases at these synthetic tracks.  That doesn't mean that speed will be adversely affected, just that the best horse should win instead of the outcome being affected by meet biases.


Harlington never stayed sound enough to do much in his career. He never won a graded stakes race...

He did win the Grade 2 Gulfstream Park Handicap in 2006, but the injuries never allowed him to reach his full potential.  As for his stallion prospects, it may be worth it to wait until his first foals hit the ground.  There is the possibility that he'll pass on his infirmities to his progeny.  If that's the case, they won't sell well at auction, and Harlington will then have a difficult time getting the good mares.  With his pedigree, $10,000 seems like a bargain but, considering his injuries, it may pay to take a wait-and-see approach.


Back with more later.  Time to knock out five baby races for Keeneland.

Take care,


Barry More than 1 year ago
Dan, have you used the Moss Pace figures ? If so what is your opinion of them ?
johnnyz More than 1 year ago
Steve T, You are not only good at beating the odds at the track but, apparently skilled in everyday life. Glad all is well with your health. Have a wonderfull safe journey on you road trip! (boy am I jealous!) Larryk, I am 100% sure Winchester is owned at least by members of the same Firstone family that owned Geniune Risk. Will check it out further when I have time. Just sure somewhere in the past I read an article regarding that thought. Slew, I didn't take notes so I hope my feeble brain can answer all your questions. Yes the QE II is uphill toward the finish. Rounding the final turn is refered to as Swindley Bottom and, from there to the post is a 73' climb. Most all of the UK tracks are undulanting. I don't know if you have ever studied training habits in Europe but trainers work their horses on hills regulary. LH/RH, this is a dilema I have never been able to get a hold of with the exception that some could care less and, others struggle with the opposite direction. One of my lifetime favs is the classy filly Quija Board. That gal could run right handed, ship 4K miles and win left handed without blinking an eye. Guess If I had to make a statement on that subject it would be the same as running surfaces. The really good (great) ones could give a hoot less in what direction they are running in. They just want to run, and win!. I need to clarify my statement about Winchester winning the BC Turf. I think he will be good odds and, has a very good chance to win the Turf. I feel Winchester could fly under the "Rader" with the betting public. Will he be the most talented horse in the gate? No! As a matter of fact after your post about Red Giant and, his incredible time in his last I decided to study him and watch some video. I will tell you the first five generations of his pedigree is a who's-who's! Very impressive. Right now both will be used on all my tickets come BC day. Here is a link to a good video of Winchester winning the Secretariat S. on Millions Day. is the 8th race: http://www.arlingtonpark.com/video While you are there might as well watch the 10th which is the Million, and the 9th which is the Beverly D. stakes. Both could have BC implications. Winchester is a three yr. old, that has really improved this summer. Watch his acceleration and, easy lead change entering the stretch in the Secretariat. While not having the surface pedigree of Red Giant, very classy female family. Also have to mention he ran almost 1/2 second faster than Spirit One did while two races earlier. Which the Arlington track was damp that day and, should have been getting faster as the day went along. All of Winchesters races can be viewed on decent video at, Attheraces.com. There website is down, or has a problem right now so I can't paste the link. Just type in Winchester in the search block. When his races come up click on the red camera on the right side of the screen for the video.
SR Vegas More than 1 year ago
opps...Rosa Grace is at 12/1 ML odds ....not 20/1 ...But Alan, I would still check her out! Thanks for the note! by the way, I also saw your "Love Horse" ALAAZO is racing this weekend at Keenland...GO BABY GO! ............................. g or g ...Casino Drive, I think will be an interesting showing at Santa Anita on Sunday. He will either love the surface & win easily over the other 52K allowance entries (like Curlin did in Dubai in his prep race before the Dubai World Cup) or he won't. It's understandably a big drop from the Belmont Stakes that he was scratched from because of the bruised foot. With the long layoff, he needs a race over the surface, and if all is well and he's healthy..Class dominates. Does anyone have PP's for the race? SR Vegas
Van Savant More than 1 year ago
Annie; You are a gem. That's all. Thanks Van Savant
chicago gerry More than 1 year ago
Alan, My BB stud fee guess is based on the idea that BB will be looked upon as one who could run on multi surfaces. That fee is ...pinky to the corner of the mouth, ...One Milliiiiiion Dollars... Actually, my real guess is $125,000. Thanks,
Tinky More than 1 year ago
Ray – Yes, I agree with you that all three of those races (and performances) were exceptional. You were lucky to have seen them live! I'd add that the discussion that vicstu and I were having was, in some respects, hair-splitting. There have been many outstanding runners and races throughout the recent decades, and sometimes we have a tendency to focus too much on superlatives such as "the very best". I enjoyed watching Michael Jordan as much as the next guy, but I also derived great pleasure from watching Michael Cooper play defense, or Jeff Mullins shooting free-throws, etc. Many of my favorite memories of horses and races have little to do with Grade I events and/or champions, and more than a few relate to the physical appearances and warm-ups made by horses prior to races. Take the Harvey Vanier-trained Pretty Perfect, for example, at double digit odds, warming up brilliantly before a race at Gulfstream...
Katieattherail More than 1 year ago
Good morning all..... Wow, Uncle Steve, I join the throng (thong?)who are all grateful and relieved about the recent medical test results. And your road trip sounds like the perfect way to celebrate! Keep it goin'! Life is too short not to do what makes you happy (as long as it's legal in most states)...I race 5kms and like live opera, but guess what, next weekend in Toronto I get all that AND a trip to Woodbine...life, she is good! Chi-Gerry, yeah, I see myself slipping in the contest standings, but hey, I'm way ahead of CHALKY!!! I'll be back, Annie at least has a lady in waiting in her court..... Beautiful fall day up here, gotta go run! Good luck all....and yes, Alan, thanks for the Alaazo alert on Sunday at KEE! Katieattherail
FINSKI More than 1 year ago
Stephen Taylor More than 1 year ago
Called our trainer the other day just to get a feel for how Erdiston is doing, and things are looking good. (He's #9 in the 3rd at Keeneland) For those who use riders in your handicapping, there will be a rider change to Eibar Coa (Joel is staying in Chicago) Mike also gave me a "homework assignment" (Kinda like handigambling but now that I've done it I'm gonna have to shell out real money) when he asked me to put together $100 worth of gimmix on the race (separate from wps bets) I'm going $20wps so I ended up with $140 in gimmix to give me an even $200 on the race. 10centsuper- 9 w 3,4,5,6,11,12 w 3,4,5,6,10,11,12 w 3,4,5,6,10,11,12 10centsuper 3,4,5,6,11,12 w 9 w 3,4,5,6,10,11,12 w 3,4,5,6,10,11,12 50centtri 9 w 3,4,5,6,11,12 w 3,4,5,6,10,11,12 50centtri 3,4,5,6,11,12 w 9 w 3,4,5,6,10,11,12 50centtri 3,6,11 w 3,6,11 w 9 $1super 9 w 6,11 w 3,5,6,11 w 3,5,6,11,12 $2EX 9 w 1,2,3,4,5,6,8,10,12 $2EX 3,4,5,6,10,11,12 w 9 $3EX 9/11 Here's how I see the race: First, I'm obviously operating on the assumption that Erdiston is ready to go, and as for the others: 6-Theregoesatiger and 11-Rock N Fire both have big questions but they're also, in my opinion are the 2 top horses in terms of pure talent. (However, "tiger" is 1st poly and takes a very alarming drop, and "Rock" has been off for a year. The lack of public works does't bother me as much as some because I'm guessing they found another way to bring him up to the race to reduce the chance of losing him via claim) 12-Lord Robyn and 3-Forest Attack are 1/2 in the ML but both seem to me to have enough question marks that either or both could easily run out of the money-Lord Robyn, after only one start for Maker, drops below where he was claimed which is a huge red flag for a ml favorite and 3-Forest Attack doesn't seem like the same horse who won his first 4 races and is being placed in for a tag for the first time and the fact that at age 5 he has only 6 lifetime starts tells you there are big issues here as well. Meanwhile 4-Pimm's Oclock is a realistic longie with 2 solid races over the keeneland poly, 5-Mountain Stagg, after taking 16 tries to break his maiden, promptly won 4 of 5 and is a contender if you toss his last race. 10-Taco Don has a 5th but only beaten 1 1/2 lengths at this level over this track last fall which makes him a nice addition to the bottom of tri and super tickets to add some value. 1-Podgy is probably overmatched but has won 3 in a row, and 2-Calcualting Jimmy has run ok on the artificial surface in Pennsylvania,and 8-Speaking of Kings is probably a waste of $2 but has come up with a couple of big races recently, albeit on dirt, and the horse seems to have thrived under Foley if you excuse his last, so I'm using them below Erdiston in the exactas as "savers" since they'd at least salvage my gimmick money if Erdiston wins and my tri/super horses don't get the job done.
vicstu More than 1 year ago
C, To expand on your trivia question, is bred in the US and bred in Canada the answers? I do believe that both Nijinsky and The Minstral were ridden by The Longfellow Lester Piggott and trained by Vincent O'Brien. They had that in common... Also, Roberto was also trained by O'brien and ridden by Piggott. As for Alleged, I am assuming you are talking about the back to back winner of the ARC and son of Hoist the Flag-because there was another Alleged from the 1950s in Europe who was a champion. The Hoist the Flag progeny Alleged was also trained by Obrien and ridden by Lester Piggott. Mill Road seems to be the exception, ridden by Geoff Lewis and trained by Ian Balding. Given this, I would guess that what Roberto, Alleged and Mill Road all have in common is that each horse was bred in the United States but raced in Europe winning their biggest races. As for Nijinsky and The Minstrel, they were both bred in Canada and raced in Europe (and elsewhere). Is that the answer to your trivia question?